This really helped me visualize where I was, where I am on the spectrum of the Lion, and where I’m heading or have hope of heading —-Spiritually BUT also emotionally, mentally and physically in current life outside of 2x2 which I guess are all intertwined. That balance of letting go but also taking action as to not be in a freeze state resonates. Also we are still being gaslit not by words but just by the actions of the workers and friends continuing on in seemingly happy perfect peace and contentment. So, naming it- desert/beast of burden helps calm my brain. It is so healing to see and think about the ex 2x2 community being the community. You might not think you are articulating your thoughts well, but it’s great work.
This totally makes sense, thank you! I still feel like I'm in the lion stage, but seeing pieces of the child coming forward which is very exciting at 63. Love that about leaving the desert. It feels so good to leave that place where there was no growth.
So right on. Lately, I have had the thought more than a few times that the 2 x 2s only have Grace, or only can claim Grace, after they die ... after they have proved they'll "be true until they die". At every funeral, they are glorified as having been true to the end (meaning professing until death), and of course are saved. Never a question, if they went to meeting until they died. But 10 minutes before death, they still can't claim Grace ... no, not yet! This is like "camping in the desert" in this life and saying it is the promised land. Instead of having the joy now. I think that is one of the outstanding impactful feelings/realizations I've had in all this. Isn't it funny how we all know EXACTLY what you are talking about ... camping in the desert and calling it the promised land ... ?!
These three stages are a good presentation device. I wonder, does Nietzsche say anything about the possiblity to be a combination of two stages at once? For instance, the loyal 2x2 is definitely a camel for the cult, but does it also train them to be a lion towards anything it deems "worldly?" So, you dutifully nod yes to preacher edicts but you roar an empathic no at all the things that could enrich your life that preachers warn are harmful.
Likewise on the way out; you're a lion against the organization and roar no to all that it asked if you. At the same time, are you a camel, willingly accepting the burden of learning every bit of promising new information you hope enlightens, hoping to move you along to the child stage? That's probably where me actually reading the man's treatise could possibly answer a question he's already answered.
I appreciate you emphasizing that you don't intend on defining what people's child stage should look like. After being trained for conformity and having life goals dictated, each person landing in their child spot organically probably works all around.
Yes, I have a lot of reading to do before I could answer with what Nietzsche might have thought. Look for me to get back to you sometime within the next 3 years 😂.
I think that makes total sense to be in multiple stages at once or to move back and forth between them.
Talk about flipping the script! Of course, we were shaped by our 2x2 upbringing and culture. But instead of erasing all of that, here's to embracing the bits we want to keep and consider ourselves part of the healthy, healing community that is seeking to live life the best way possible. No longer 'outside the fold' or 'losing out' or 'going to a lost eternity' but members of a brave cohort pointing the way to the future.
This !!!!! This is phenomenal! Can I share this? It’s almost devastating to hear these phases and realize I’m 63 and still reaching and yearning for the child. ❤️🩹
Thank you Melanie! Yes, feel free to share. The child phase is something I hope to learn a lot more about for myself also. I found it helpful to begin thinking of it in those terms, and hopefully we get increasingly drawn in the child direction as a result.
Jared I love this!!! I’m only like 10 minutes in and nodding vigorously and making affirmative grunting sounds. 😂 I remember one time walking into Gospel meeting and hearing almost audibly “you’ve outgrown this”. But of course it scared me because that couldn’t possibly be God’s voice… right!? 🙃 That would be a prideful thought, right? But wow… the camel, the lion and the child (and I’m right there with you, embarrassed over my lack of knowledge and reading) is such a powerful metaphor.
Don’t be fooled… every once in a while I say things that sound kinda smart, but at least half the time my brain feels like a giant depressed pigeon staring at a wall. 😅
The pendulum has swung and I’m on my way to the child stage.
Still mourning those close to me who are sitting in the desert and thinking they’ve arrived. I’ve stopped roaring, since they” know “, yet still are stuck to some degree. That gets frustrating at times, though my brain understands it’s not up to me.
Your meandering through the Nietzsche metaphor was very clear to me — and camping in the desert thinking it’s the promised land — spot on! I appreciate the ex community as *the* community because it feels like being raised within the high walls of the friends/workers community didn’t help me to learn how to create or look for the communities I want to belong to. And life without any community is so isolating and harmful!
This concept of the child stage makes me wonder if there is a connection to Jesus' message when He said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matt 19:14
This really helped me visualize where I was, where I am on the spectrum of the Lion, and where I’m heading or have hope of heading —-Spiritually BUT also emotionally, mentally and physically in current life outside of 2x2 which I guess are all intertwined. That balance of letting go but also taking action as to not be in a freeze state resonates. Also we are still being gaslit not by words but just by the actions of the workers and friends continuing on in seemingly happy perfect peace and contentment. So, naming it- desert/beast of burden helps calm my brain. It is so healing to see and think about the ex 2x2 community being the community. You might not think you are articulating your thoughts well, but it’s great work.
Maybe we can celebrate a ‘culture’ that stemmed from Truth 2x2s.
This totally makes sense, thank you! I still feel like I'm in the lion stage, but seeing pieces of the child coming forward which is very exciting at 63. Love that about leaving the desert. It feels so good to leave that place where there was no growth.
So right on. Lately, I have had the thought more than a few times that the 2 x 2s only have Grace, or only can claim Grace, after they die ... after they have proved they'll "be true until they die". At every funeral, they are glorified as having been true to the end (meaning professing until death), and of course are saved. Never a question, if they went to meeting until they died. But 10 minutes before death, they still can't claim Grace ... no, not yet! This is like "camping in the desert" in this life and saying it is the promised land. Instead of having the joy now. I think that is one of the outstanding impactful feelings/realizations I've had in all this. Isn't it funny how we all know EXACTLY what you are talking about ... camping in the desert and calling it the promised land ... ?!
These three stages are a good presentation device. I wonder, does Nietzsche say anything about the possiblity to be a combination of two stages at once? For instance, the loyal 2x2 is definitely a camel for the cult, but does it also train them to be a lion towards anything it deems "worldly?" So, you dutifully nod yes to preacher edicts but you roar an empathic no at all the things that could enrich your life that preachers warn are harmful.
Likewise on the way out; you're a lion against the organization and roar no to all that it asked if you. At the same time, are you a camel, willingly accepting the burden of learning every bit of promising new information you hope enlightens, hoping to move you along to the child stage? That's probably where me actually reading the man's treatise could possibly answer a question he's already answered.
I appreciate you emphasizing that you don't intend on defining what people's child stage should look like. After being trained for conformity and having life goals dictated, each person landing in their child spot organically probably works all around.
Yes, I have a lot of reading to do before I could answer with what Nietzsche might have thought. Look for me to get back to you sometime within the next 3 years 😂.
I think that makes total sense to be in multiple stages at once or to move back and forth between them.
This was great and helped me see what I’m going through with new eyes. Camping out in the desert and calling it the promised land… wow!
Talk about flipping the script! Of course, we were shaped by our 2x2 upbringing and culture. But instead of erasing all of that, here's to embracing the bits we want to keep and consider ourselves part of the healthy, healing community that is seeking to live life the best way possible. No longer 'outside the fold' or 'losing out' or 'going to a lost eternity' but members of a brave cohort pointing the way to the future.
This !!!!! This is phenomenal! Can I share this? It’s almost devastating to hear these phases and realize I’m 63 and still reaching and yearning for the child. ❤️🩹
Thank you Melanie! Yes, feel free to share. The child phase is something I hope to learn a lot more about for myself also. I found it helpful to begin thinking of it in those terms, and hopefully we get increasingly drawn in the child direction as a result.
This is profundity right here. Methinks your brain works well ...
On occasion!
Don’t go too hard! It’s ok to go slowly, you’ll burn out
Too late 😂. I'll catch on eventually!
Jared I love this!!! I’m only like 10 minutes in and nodding vigorously and making affirmative grunting sounds. 😂 I remember one time walking into Gospel meeting and hearing almost audibly “you’ve outgrown this”. But of course it scared me because that couldn’t possibly be God’s voice… right!? 🙃 That would be a prideful thought, right? But wow… the camel, the lion and the child (and I’m right there with you, embarrassed over my lack of knowledge and reading) is such a powerful metaphor.
Thanks Heidi, that means a lot coming from you 🙂!
Don’t be fooled… every once in a while I say things that sound kinda smart, but at least half the time my brain feels like a giant depressed pigeon staring at a wall. 😅
😂, there are dozens of us, dozens!
The pendulum has swung and I’m on my way to the child stage.
Still mourning those close to me who are sitting in the desert and thinking they’ve arrived. I’ve stopped roaring, since they” know “, yet still are stuck to some degree. That gets frustrating at times, though my brain understands it’s not up to me.
Good stuff. Thank you!
Jared, thanks for putting words to this journey we’re on! I love this comparison to the children of Israel leaving Egypt!
Your meandering through the Nietzsche metaphor was very clear to me — and camping in the desert thinking it’s the promised land — spot on! I appreciate the ex community as *the* community because it feels like being raised within the high walls of the friends/workers community didn’t help me to learn how to create or look for the communities I want to belong to. And life without any community is so isolating and harmful!
This concept of the child stage makes me wonder if there is a connection to Jesus' message when He said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matt 19:14
I noticed that too. I wonder if Nietzsche got closer to what Jesus actually meant than Christianity has managed to
Hi Jared … very interesting. A lot to mull over. Thanks!